I'm not sure what we were thinking.
Actually, no, I know what we were thinking. Free passes, fresh snow, bright sunshine, and Mrs. Porter wanted to get a few more on-snow days before we head back out West in a few weeks.
But when we arrived at Cataloochee at 8:30 on Sunday, and the lot was full and the line for a ticket was an hour, well, the writing was on the wall.
Fog burns out of Jonathan Valley ...
Overhead, bright beautiful sunshine ...
By 10 am things are getting a bit out of control; here, Mrs. Porter threads the needle ...
... while somehow Porter finds some open slope.
But by 11 am it was no longer comfortable, nor safe, to ski. Simply standing off to the side of the trail became a dangerous proposition. While chatting with Mr. Stinky we had to keep constant lookout to avoid crashing skiers, slipsliding pedestrians, runaway boards, forgotten poles. ETC. We figured we had it about as good as it was going to be.
Likely, Sunday was the busiest day of what is probably going to be a very busy season at Cataloochee. Cataloochee is one of the best managed areas around, yet even Cataloochee seems to teeter on the brink of catastrophe when confronted with such crowds. I feel that many of the problems at Cataloochee can be rather simply solved. Having been a loyal customer for several years now, I now feel entitled to make some constructive criticism meant at making my favorite local resort better:
1. Make Sure All Patrollers Are Good Skiers
Yes, Cataloochee's patrollers are without question good people. Not all of them are good skiers. Patrollers need to be capable of handling all conditions; otherwise, they become part of the chaos. In a day of spectacular and harrowing crashes, patrollers on Sunday were at the nexus of some of the most worst. I realise patrollers need to train, however, bringing candidate patrollers with marginal skiing ability to the hill on the busiest day of the year only makes things worse. I watched this one slide a good ways down Alley Cat:
Another patroller was responsible for a five-person accident that left one little boy doubled over screaming, 'I can't breathe, I can't breathe.'
1b. Do Not Allow Patrollers To Hike Uphill On Busy Days
Yes, I realize climbing the mountain with skis on your back is very cool; doing so with your dog is even cooler. Why management allows patrollers to hike uphill, in the middle of the trail, with a dog, on the busiest morning of the year, is completely beyond me.
There is plenty of time to do this either before 8:30, or off in the woods.
2. You've Got Mountain Hosts, Make Them Earn Their Free Tickets.
Cataloochee's hosts do a good job of making you feel welcome when you arrive. Other than that, they are not very helpful. As I see it, the purpose of hosts is to one, greet you when you arrive, and two, get you out of the base area so more people can take your place.
When the line to get tickets stretches across the parking lot, and when many of the people in that line actually only wanted to rent equipment, and when many of the people in the rental line only wanted to buy tickets, and when it takes several minutes of explaining to each person when they make it to the booth what line they should actually be standing in, it seems to make sense that this is an opportunity for hosts to step in.
Furthermore, since the lifties are not going to do it, mountain hosts should also be used to keep liftlines in check, and to figure out how to prevent certain lines from snaking halfway back up the mountain, vis a vis the rope tow line ...
And they could also be employed to some effect in lift lines, making gentle suggestions to obviously flustered skiers that they might want to practice for a run or two more on the rope tow before becoming a walker down the quad's slopes.
3. Please Open Up Some New Terrain
The problem with Cataloochee on busy days is that every single skier is funnelled into the same 300 square feet of hardpacked snowcovered terrain. This illustrates perfectly why Cataloochee needs a different way down the mountain and a different way up the mountain. A new run from the summit, and a new lift starting about at the top of the triple, would keep expert skiers out of the base area and provide intermediate skiers with a different way down. Otherwise, you end up with this.
My overarching concern is for the quality of skiing.
The End of an Era...We are Shutting Down the Messageboard
The messageboard is now in read-only mode and no new posts or topics can be created. We will leave the messageboard up for historical purposes, but you will not be able to make new posts or comment on existing ones.
We have started a Discord server and hope that you all will join us on there. Technology has changed over the years and maintaining the messageboard has become somewhat of a pain in the butt and Discord offers many features for users, the main one being a very polished mobile app.
We really hope you all will join us on Discord and think you will like the platform. Use the invite link below to join.
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The messageboard is now in read-only mode and no new posts or topics can be created. We will leave the messageboard up for historical purposes, but you will not be able to make new posts or comment on existing ones.
We have started a Discord server and hope that you all will join us on there. Technology has changed over the years and maintaining the messageboard has become somewhat of a pain in the butt and Discord offers many features for users, the main one being a very polished mobile app.
We really hope you all will join us on Discord and think you will like the platform. Use the invite link below to join.
https://discord.gg/skisoutheast
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teledave
- Expert
- Posts: 7957
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:56 pm
- Contact:
Lots of truth there, Porter.
Especially regarding the Mtn. Hosts and ticket/lift lines, that should be an easy fix. I skiied there during the Christmas holidays taking my wife and children and had to wait in a 50 minute to buy 2 lift tickets. The worst was wasting 10 minutes just trying to figure out which line to be in, because none of the Mtn. Hosts could tell you. I would really love to see a lift ticket only window.
Especially regarding the Mtn. Hosts and ticket/lift lines, that should be an easy fix. I skiied there during the Christmas holidays taking my wife and children and had to wait in a 50 minute to buy 2 lift tickets. The worst was wasting 10 minutes just trying to figure out which line to be in, because none of the Mtn. Hosts could tell you. I would really love to see a lift ticket only window.
Plans for 2015: To ski more than you
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skiing rules
- Expert
- Posts: 2050
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:45 pm
hawksnest has a bad ticke situation as well, we waited in a line behind 10 people for 30 mins a hawks, i have no clue wut they were doing, also i know what u mean about the patrollers. I skied at catt earlier this year and saw some candidate patrollers that looked like it was their first time skiing, if i ever gt in an accident and had to be taken down in the sled I would not feel safe with those patrollers doing it.
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teledave
- Expert
- Posts: 7957
- Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:56 pm
- Contact:
skiing rules wrote:
hawksnest has a bad ticke situation as well, we waited in a line behind 10 people for 30 mins a hawks, i have no clue wut they were doing, also i know what u mean about the patrollers. I skied at catt earlier this year and saw some candidate patrollers that looked like it was their first time skiing, if i ever gt in an accident and had to be taken down in the sled I would not feel safe with those patrollers doing it.
No worries on that front skiingrules, they do have to qualify on the practice course to drive or (I think) trail the sled. Candidates are just that, they have to pass a national skills test before the regional director before they get past candidate level. Until then they just get to tell you to slow down, carry bamboo, and assist in crown control.
hawksnest has a bad ticke situation as well, we waited in a line behind 10 people for 30 mins a hawks, i have no clue wut they were doing, also i know what u mean about the patrollers. I skied at catt earlier this year and saw some candidate patrollers that looked like it was their first time skiing, if i ever gt in an accident and had to be taken down in the sled I would not feel safe with those patrollers doing it.
No worries on that front skiingrules, they do have to qualify on the practice course to drive or (I think) trail the sled. Candidates are just that, they have to pass a national skills test before the regional director before they get past candidate level. Until then they just get to tell you to slow down, carry bamboo, and assist in crown control.
Plans for 2015: To ski more than you
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CatPatrol
- Beginner
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:11 pm
porter wrote:
I'm not sure what we were thinking.
Actually, no, I know what we were thinking. Free passes, fresh snow, bright sunshine, and Mrs. Porter wanted to get a few more on-snow days before we head back out West in a few weeks.
But when we arrived at Cataloochee at 8:30 on Sunday, and the lot was full and the line for a ticket was an hour, well, the writing was on the wall.
Fog burns out of Jonathan Valley ...
Overhead, bright beautiful sunshine ...
By 10 am things are getting a bit out of control; here, Mrs. Porter threads the needle ...
... while somehow Porter finds some open slope.
But by 11 am it was no longer comfortable, nor safe, to ski. Simply standing off to the side of the trail became a dangerous proposition. While chatting with Mr. Stinky we had to keep constant lookout to avoid crashing skiers, slipsliding pedestrians, runaway boards, forgotten poles. ETC. We figured we had it about as good as it was going to be.
Likely, Sunday was the busiest day of what is probably going to be a very busy season at Cataloochee. Cataloochee is one of the best managed areas around, yet even Cataloochee seems to teeter on the brink of catastrophe when confronted with such crowds. I feel that many of the problems at Cataloochee can be rather simply solved. Having been a loyal customer for several years now, I now feel entitled to make some constructive criticism meant at making my favorite local resort better:
1. Make Sure All Patrollers Are Good Skiers
Yes, Cataloochee's patrollers are without question good people. Not all of them are good skiers. Patrollers need to be capable of handling all conditions; otherwise, they become part of the chaos. In a day of spectacular and harrowing crashes, patrollers on Sunday were at the nexus of some of the most worst. I realise patrollers need to train, however, bringing candidate patrollers with marginal skiing ability to the hill on the busiest day of the year only makes things worse. I watched this one slide a good ways down Alley Cat:
Another patroller was responsible for a five-person accident that left one little boy doubled over screaming, 'I can't breathe, I can't breathe.'
1b. Do Not Allow Patrollers To Hike Uphill On Busy Days
Yes, I realize climbing the mountain with skis on your back is very cool; doing so with your dog is even cooler. Why management allows patrollers to hike uphill, in the middle of the trail, with a dog, on the busiest morning of the year, is completely beyond me.
There is plenty of time to do this either before 8:30, or off in the woods.
2. You've Got Mountain Hosts, Make Them Earn Their Free Tickets.
Cataloochee's hosts do a good job of making you feel welcome when you arrive. Other than that, they are not very helpful. As I see it, the purpose of hosts is to one, greet you when you arrive, and two, get you out of the base area so more people can take your place.
When the line to get tickets stretches across the parking lot, and when many of the people in that line actually only wanted to rent equipment, and when many of the people in the rental line only wanted to buy tickets, and when it takes several minutes of explaining to each person when they make it to the booth what line they should actually be standing in, it seems to make sense that this is an opportunity for hosts to step in.
Furthermore, since the lifties are not going to do it, mountain hosts should also be used to keep liftlines in check, and to figure out how to prevent certain lines from snaking halfway back up the mountain, vis a vis the rope tow line ...
And they could also be employed to some effect in lift lines, making gentle suggestions to obviously flustered skiers that they might want to practice for a run or two more on the rope tow before becoming a walker down the quad's slopes.
3. Please Open Up Some New Terrain
The problem with Cataloochee on busy days is that every single skier is funnelled into the same 300 square feet of hardpacked snowcovered terrain. This illustrates perfectly why Cataloochee needs a different way down the mountain and a different way up the mountain. A new run from the summit, and a new lift starting about at the top of the triple, would keep expert skiers out of the base area and provide intermediate skiers with a different way down. Otherwise, you end up with this.
My overarching concern is for the quality of skiing.
I agree Porter, this weekend was crazy, I was there both Saturday and Sunday. Two weekends I won't ski in the South (unless I'm working) are MLK and President's weekend. These are the big money makers for the areas, having patrolled in PA and skied most of my life in New England it's pretty much the same all around except we get more people on much less terrain. Let me comment on some of your posting. I witnessed the fall of the patroller in your picture as well from the lift. He has over 30 years experience, was taking photos on the headwall of alley cat and swung around on the icy conditions, his main concern he told me was protecting his $500 camera. The photo of the patroller hiking the hill is Rick the team leader for the weekend. He has over 15 years experience having patrolled at Lake Louise and areas in Australia. He hikes the hill every morning, says he can see things better (i.e. hazards, fencing problems etc.). Your photo was at approx 9:30am, not very crowded yet and he is under the quad, unskiable except for those who don't care about their skis yesterday. Unfortunately training is necessary even on our busiest weekends. Our teams are only together every third week. We have one of the finest training programs in the area. We have 3 level II and 1 level III PSIA certified instructors as well as others committed to train our candidates. Unless a patroller is fully certified as a member of the NSP they may not bring a sled down with an injured party. The mid loading on the double was open yesterday and helped those who wanted to stay skiing the top and never had much more than a 5-10 min wait. On the patrol this weekend we acted as lift attendents, boot fitters for the rental department. as well as directing the corals in addition to caring for the general public. All for no pay! It may have looked crazy out there but in reality our injuries were minimal and on the light side for a normal weekend. We're staying open to the end of March c'mon back for some "spring" skiing and have some fun with no crowds.
I'm not sure what we were thinking.
Actually, no, I know what we were thinking. Free passes, fresh snow, bright sunshine, and Mrs. Porter wanted to get a few more on-snow days before we head back out West in a few weeks.
But when we arrived at Cataloochee at 8:30 on Sunday, and the lot was full and the line for a ticket was an hour, well, the writing was on the wall.
Fog burns out of Jonathan Valley ...
Overhead, bright beautiful sunshine ...
By 10 am things are getting a bit out of control; here, Mrs. Porter threads the needle ...
... while somehow Porter finds some open slope.
But by 11 am it was no longer comfortable, nor safe, to ski. Simply standing off to the side of the trail became a dangerous proposition. While chatting with Mr. Stinky we had to keep constant lookout to avoid crashing skiers, slipsliding pedestrians, runaway boards, forgotten poles. ETC. We figured we had it about as good as it was going to be.
Likely, Sunday was the busiest day of what is probably going to be a very busy season at Cataloochee. Cataloochee is one of the best managed areas around, yet even Cataloochee seems to teeter on the brink of catastrophe when confronted with such crowds. I feel that many of the problems at Cataloochee can be rather simply solved. Having been a loyal customer for several years now, I now feel entitled to make some constructive criticism meant at making my favorite local resort better:
1. Make Sure All Patrollers Are Good Skiers
Yes, Cataloochee's patrollers are without question good people. Not all of them are good skiers. Patrollers need to be capable of handling all conditions; otherwise, they become part of the chaos. In a day of spectacular and harrowing crashes, patrollers on Sunday were at the nexus of some of the most worst. I realise patrollers need to train, however, bringing candidate patrollers with marginal skiing ability to the hill on the busiest day of the year only makes things worse. I watched this one slide a good ways down Alley Cat:
Another patroller was responsible for a five-person accident that left one little boy doubled over screaming, 'I can't breathe, I can't breathe.'
1b. Do Not Allow Patrollers To Hike Uphill On Busy Days
Yes, I realize climbing the mountain with skis on your back is very cool; doing so with your dog is even cooler. Why management allows patrollers to hike uphill, in the middle of the trail, with a dog, on the busiest morning of the year, is completely beyond me.
There is plenty of time to do this either before 8:30, or off in the woods.
2. You've Got Mountain Hosts, Make Them Earn Their Free Tickets.
Cataloochee's hosts do a good job of making you feel welcome when you arrive. Other than that, they are not very helpful. As I see it, the purpose of hosts is to one, greet you when you arrive, and two, get you out of the base area so more people can take your place.
When the line to get tickets stretches across the parking lot, and when many of the people in that line actually only wanted to rent equipment, and when many of the people in the rental line only wanted to buy tickets, and when it takes several minutes of explaining to each person when they make it to the booth what line they should actually be standing in, it seems to make sense that this is an opportunity for hosts to step in.
Furthermore, since the lifties are not going to do it, mountain hosts should also be used to keep liftlines in check, and to figure out how to prevent certain lines from snaking halfway back up the mountain, vis a vis the rope tow line ...
And they could also be employed to some effect in lift lines, making gentle suggestions to obviously flustered skiers that they might want to practice for a run or two more on the rope tow before becoming a walker down the quad's slopes.
3. Please Open Up Some New Terrain
The problem with Cataloochee on busy days is that every single skier is funnelled into the same 300 square feet of hardpacked snowcovered terrain. This illustrates perfectly why Cataloochee needs a different way down the mountain and a different way up the mountain. A new run from the summit, and a new lift starting about at the top of the triple, would keep expert skiers out of the base area and provide intermediate skiers with a different way down. Otherwise, you end up with this.
My overarching concern is for the quality of skiing.
I agree Porter, this weekend was crazy, I was there both Saturday and Sunday. Two weekends I won't ski in the South (unless I'm working) are MLK and President's weekend. These are the big money makers for the areas, having patrolled in PA and skied most of my life in New England it's pretty much the same all around except we get more people on much less terrain. Let me comment on some of your posting. I witnessed the fall of the patroller in your picture as well from the lift. He has over 30 years experience, was taking photos on the headwall of alley cat and swung around on the icy conditions, his main concern he told me was protecting his $500 camera. The photo of the patroller hiking the hill is Rick the team leader for the weekend. He has over 15 years experience having patrolled at Lake Louise and areas in Australia. He hikes the hill every morning, says he can see things better (i.e. hazards, fencing problems etc.). Your photo was at approx 9:30am, not very crowded yet and he is under the quad, unskiable except for those who don't care about their skis yesterday. Unfortunately training is necessary even on our busiest weekends. Our teams are only together every third week. We have one of the finest training programs in the area. We have 3 level II and 1 level III PSIA certified instructors as well as others committed to train our candidates. Unless a patroller is fully certified as a member of the NSP they may not bring a sled down with an injured party. The mid loading on the double was open yesterday and helped those who wanted to stay skiing the top and never had much more than a 5-10 min wait. On the patrol this weekend we acted as lift attendents, boot fitters for the rental department. as well as directing the corals in addition to caring for the general public. All for no pay! It may have looked crazy out there but in reality our injuries were minimal and on the light side for a normal weekend. We're staying open to the end of March c'mon back for some "spring" skiing and have some fun with no crowds.
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admin
Hey Porter! If you really want to do something cconstructive, come and lend a hand. It is harder than you know. Your comments in a blog were one-sided, non-constructive and personally damaging. Constructive would be meeting with management discussing your issues and suggesting some alternatives and then getting INVOLVED to make them happen, not taking pictures and telling a one sided story in a public ski blog. For example, you didn't mention Angel is a SAR airscent dog in training and we spend over 10 hours a week training (not always cool) in all sorts of weather and conditions. That she is well behaved, trained and not in any ones way. That she also is comfort and entertainment for the people and children waiting in lines for an hour or two. There were less than 6 skiers on Alley Cat where the picture was taken, from the tree shadows you can tell we were not in the middle of the trail but on the side, nor do you mention the reason I climb the trail each weekend, besides good exercise, is to check pads and fencing is installed properly to ensure public safety. It beats stopping every 20 feet and taking my skis off to free frozen strapping. Nor do you mention the countless hours every patroller on this hill puts in to ensure people enjoy their ski experience. Over 250 hours to get certified and then 1000's of hours each year to ensure safety. I can also attest that our ski host are not incompetent as you intimate but rather courtious individuals who indeed know where the best line to stand in is. Oh did you mention that most are "volunteers" and do this through the goodness of their heart, not for some monetary stipend, saving you and the public higher ticket prices. As a long time Cat skier you are more than aware that Presidents day and each one teaches us where we need to improve and "we" are there year after year making that improvement happen. I encourage you to come and join us and become a Patroller or Ski Host, We are always looking for good volunteers. In fact I encourage any of your blog buddies to get involved. There are a lot of positive things Cataloochee has improved on over the years. Tony, Chris, Tammy, Wayne and a host of paid personnel and volunteers have contributed to making Cataloochee one of the best hills in the south. We give to, not just take from, the positive experience. By the way I do not recall giving you permission to post my picture on a public domain. But thanks it is a great shot. Perhaps we can use it in the next brochure.